[0:03] Phil Wilkins: rides a day, uh, doing this business, you've got a potential multi-million dollar business.
[0:09] Phil Wilkins: That's strong. That's strong. Any way you cut it, that is strong.
[0:13] Nirav Chheda: And that's a strong story to the head of community at Modivcare.
[0:32] Nirav Chheda: Phil, thanks for being with us.
[0:34] Phil Wilkins: How are Hey Nirav, I'm great.
[0:36] Phil Wilkins: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
[0:37] Nirav Chheda: It's awesome. You want to do a quick intro of Yeah.
[0:40] Phil Wilkins: Yeah, that would be great. Uh my name is Phil Wilkins.
[0:43] Phil Wilkins: I'm the head of community engagement, social determinants of health, for Modivcare.
[0:47] Phil Wilkins: Uh I've been with the company for about three years and uh you know more specifically in my role what I try to do is recruit people who would like to be transportation partners.
[0:58] Phil Wilkins: Um I also help uh those transportation partners who are in their in our system who want to grow and scale.
[1:05] Phil Wilkins: So I'll go out and consult and coach them up a little bit.
[1:08] Phil Wilkins: Uh I'm you know somewhat responsible for working on strategic partnerships.
[1:12] Phil Wilkins: I'm on a team that works with uh strategic partners that you know we try to to add value to our business um and to our partners' businesses and then I make community connections for RTPs and make strategic introductions
[1:28] Phil Wilkins: that way. So that's really my role uh in this place.
[1:32] Nirav Chheda: Phil, you have a really interesting role at Modivcare which is you know the biggest broker in the country.
[1:39] Nirav Chheda: Can you give us, you know, the background about how you got into this role and your story of coming from from, you know, your experience in franchising and then becoming, you know, this head of community engagement role at
[1:53] Phil Wilkins: Motive Yeah, I think I think, you know, to kind of give your your listeners a little bit more background, prior to Modivcare, I was a franchisee uh and in the franchising industry for 20 plus years.
[2:06] Phil Wilkins: Uh I was a McDonald's franchisee as well as an area developer for another company and you know owned and operated a number of restaurants throughout the south and southeast.
[2:16] Phil Wilkins: Um when I sold my business, I had a friend that worked here at the time and you know he asked me to come on board.
[2:24] Phil Wilkins: So I came on board and um you know I really lucked out.
[2:27] Phil Wilkins: I mean, I to be honest, I lucked out and uh you know, to be able to work with business owners and entrepreneurs, that's kind of in my sweet spot.
[2:36] Phil Wilkins: I can really relate to that very well.
[2:39] Phil Wilkins: And then, you know, I have a passion and an affinity for the mission that we have uh in regards to, you know, really helping those who are most vulnerable.
[2:50] Phil Wilkins: Uh and um you know I kind of grew up in a situation where you know my mom uh would have definitely needed this type of service uh if it were available back then.
[3:02] Phil Wilkins: You know uh because she had a debilitating form of arthritis and my dad worked like five jobs and so every time that he had to take her to her specialist he was literally having to take time off of
[3:16] Phil Wilkins: work. Right. And then the 20 years that I spent in the restaurants, I saw a lot of people who were impacted uh by social determinants of health.
[3:25] Phil Wilkins: And you know, it's just a matter of we've got to bridge that health equity gap.
[3:32] Phil Wilkins: So I'm very passionate about it, you know, about the work that we do and the mission that we do and um who we serve.
[3:39] Phil Wilkins: and uh I just I just think it's a critical mission and I really enjoy the work and uh how it kind of marries my passions.
[3:49] Nirav Chheda: Can you tell us about you know you started at Modivcare four years ago in between the time you started uh to now how has has your role changed and you know what you do at the company sort
[4:05] Phil Wilkins: of evolved over that time? Yeah, I think when I when I first joined, you know, I was kind of heading up a a startup division uh with meals.
[4:15] Phil Wilkins: You know, we were we were thinking about entering into the meal space and, you know, like any company, we've gone through number of corporate restructurings and I'm like, you know, I don't know if anyone is really out in
[4:28] Phil Wilkins: the community telling our story. Uh but uh I think that's a missing component because I think we really do have a strong story to tell.
[4:38] Phil Wilkins: Not only are we, you know, bridging the health equity gap, but we're also bridging the economic gap when we partner with locallyowned and operated transportation partners.
[4:49] Phil Wilkins: You know, these are businesses out in the community that is actually creating jobs and providing tax revenue.
[4:55] Phil Wilkins: And even when I owned the restaurant, I wasn't the only one making money off of that restaurant.
[4:59] Phil Wilkins: There were a lot of people making money, probably more money than me off of those restaurants sometimes, right?
[5:05] Phil Wilkins: You know, but repairmen and those types of things.
[5:07] Phil Wilkins: And you don't think about the economic impact that we have, but it's huge, you know, when you have uh uh an employer of 50 or 60 people, you know, in that community and there's four or five people that
[5:22] Phil Wilkins: are relying on that paycheck, the impact in the community is huge.
[5:27] Phil Wilkins: And so that's a piece of our story that we need to tell more.
[5:34] Phil Wilkins: Uh and our partners, you know, when you get up to 20, 30, 300, 500 rides a day, uh doing this business, you've got a potential multi-million dollar business.
[5:45] Phil Wilkins: That's strong. That's strong. Any way you cut it, that is strong.
[5:49] Phil Wilkins: And that's a strong story to tell.
[5:51] Phil Wilkins: And that needs to be shared uh in the communities that we service.
[5:57] Nirav Chheda: And you actually play a big part in helping to tell that story, right?
[6:03] Phil Wilkins: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I, you know, I definitely want to.
[6:07] Phil Wilkins: I mean, I've got national scope.
[6:09] Phil Wilkins: Uh, so, you know, it's like I'm kind of limited as much as I can get out there, but when I get out there, I'm not shy about telling it or making connections with people and telling it.
[6:18] Phil Wilkins: and you know my goal is definitely to to even share it on a broader scale and more frequently you know but uh yeah I mean it's kind of my responsibility to build those relationships with community leaders and you
[6:32] Phil Wilkins: know we recently uh as a company were awarded a um a trailblazing and diversity award by the African-American Chamber of Commerce up in New Jersey for our corporate board uh diversity and it and it's true I mean you
[6:47] Phil Wilkins: we we believe in it and uh you know we deserve that recognition and so when I see opportunities like that to really promote the brand I'm going to do that.
[6:58] Nirav Chheda: Yeah that's really great and you know Modivcare works with literally thousands of transportation providers across the country.
[7:08] Nirav Chheda: your role, you know, as the head of community engagement, you and your team are working with these thousands of transport providers, helping them to tell their story, like you said, improve their operations, grow and scale.
[7:23] Nirav Chheda: Um, I want to dive into the various ways, you know, tactically that, you know, you're on the ground, you know, helping these businesses grow and Yeah, I, you know, I work a lot with the regions.
[7:36] Phil Wilkins: I mean, you know, they are the true experts.
[7:40] Phil Wilkins: Um, and so I will, you know, maybe reach out to them or they'll reach out to me and say, "Hey, look, we have this operator or this transportation partner that is interested in, you know, growing and scaling their
[7:53] Phil Wilkins: business. I'll set up a time with that uh operator and then go in and spend, you know, a day or two with them and just kind of review operations and and, you know, what are the systems that you
[8:04] Phil Wilkins: have in place?" uh you know how are you going about you know keeping people informed and measuring your KPIs and following up and those types of things and really adding value from a consultative you know uh and I
[8:19] Phil Wilkins: think the other side is you know because I don't have any role in regards to their daytoday uh rides or anything like I'm not distributing rides at all I'm just like a an added value consultant to our transportation
[8:37] Phil Wilkins: partners. I think that's a very very unique offering uh that you know we offer our transportation partners that I don't know if a lot of people can you know so to be able to walk into you know a
[8:49] Phil Wilkins: business owner's uh office and just sit down and just say hey look man you know it's just us you know I mean it's it's we're going to talk about things that you know I'm not going to share or
[9:00] Phil Wilkins: whatever but how's life how's how's things going you know like you're looking a little stressed they're looking kind of haggard, you know, like what can we do to help you out, you know, like here's kind of what I
[9:13] Phil Wilkins: would do if I were in your situation.
[9:15] Phil Wilkins: And I and I think, you know, people respect that and they appreciate that, you know, and so it's it's really really cool.
[9:22] Phil Wilkins: I think my biggest win thus far is going into one of our transportation partners' locations and saying, "Hey, you know, how's your cash flow?" And and they indicated that, you know, their cash flow gets kind of tight in
[9:34] Phil Wilkins: the winter time, right? And so I was like,"Well, do you have a line of credit?
[9:39] Phil Wilkins: Are you utilizing that?" And they did, but they just weren't utilizing enough of it.
[9:43] Phil Wilkins: And I'm like, "Well, you know, are things good right now?" And they were like, "Yeah." And I said, "Go to your bank and double your, you know, line of credit if you can." And so then the next time
[9:52] Phil Wilkins: I went back up to visit them, they were like, "Hey, we got to double the line of credit and we've also gotten two new trucks since you were last here or two new vehicles since you were last here."
[10:00] Phil Wilkins: So, I'm like, you know, that made me feel good because we kind of put them on that path, you know, to scale and and um you know, I'm excited to see where they go from here.
[10:11] Nirav Chheda: Yeah, that's an awesome story. And I think like one of the key things to emphasize here is that when you come in to a transportation provider and ask them, hey, how's it going?
[10:22] Nirav Chheda: How can we help? You know, it it's really coming from a place of genuine like we want to help you grow your business.
[10:29] Nirav Chheda: I mean, it's not like you're not charging them anything for the help you provide.
[10:34] Nirav Chheda: It it's all just really entirely for their benefit and the help is genuine.
[10:40] Nirav Chheda: Um, and I would just love to hear maybe some more stories of like some of the, you know, more fun and really success scenarios of you just going into transport companies and doing your thing.
[10:53] Phil Wilkins: I love like walking in and sometimes, you know, asking the owner and just saying, "So, what are the, you know, what are your KPIs?" You know, "What are your KPIs?" And and then getting that information from them and
[11:08] Phil Wilkins: then saying, "Okay, if I walk through your facility here and I ask every team member, what are your top three KPIs?" What do you think they'll And let's take the walk, you know?
[11:20] Phil Wilkins: And and that's right. And then you begin to look around and say, "Well, you know, I really don't see any messaging even on the wall or anything like that that is consistent with what you're saying your KPIs are."
[11:32] Phil Wilkins: So, not only should we have the key performance indicators, but the biggest issue is how are you keeping people informed?
[11:39] Phil Wilkins: And that's a KPI in and of itself, right?
[11:42] Phil Wilkins: keep people informed because if they don't know what those KPIs are and you're not following up every day and praising people for hitting them, how do you how successful do you think you're really going to be?
[11:55] Phil Wilkins: you know, so sometimes I mean and it's just going in and asking those types of questions and you know that's 20 plus years of running my own business, you know, coming out and um you know I remember another
[12:08] Phil Wilkins: scenario just saying hey when is your your your meeting with your team well we try you know we try to meet on this day we try to meet on that day that's not a date you know I mean
[12:22] Phil Wilkins: so if you want me to be honest and and and forthright, uh you're part of the problem, you know?
[12:30] Phil Wilkins: I mean, but that's something where if you're gonna if you know, if you were to pay for a consultant, right, I would want that consultant to be and just, you know, be direct and say, "Hey, listen.
[12:42] Phil Wilkins: You know what? We need to set a date.
[12:45] Phil Wilkins: Let's set a date. What are the dates that are important to you?
[12:49] Phil Wilkins: You know, what is the time that's best for you and in your team to meet?
[12:54] Phil Wilkins: And then what are the areas that need to be covered every single meeting, right?
[13:00] Phil Wilkins: So I mean th this was in my own organization where Mondays at 2 o'clock were the time for us to get together.
[13:09] Phil Wilkins: Right? That was the time and we had four critical items that we had to discuss every Monday at 2 o'clock.
[13:15] Phil Wilkins: No matter what else was on the agenda, we were going to talk about four items.
[13:19] Phil Wilkins: People, operations, profit, and sales, no matter what.
[13:23] Phil Wilkins: and we were going to dig in and dive into those those areas, right?
[13:28] Phil Wilkins: Anything else, it was extra, but we knew every Monday and the managers knew every Monday, come prepared.
[13:35] Phil Wilkins: I'm not going to present to you.
[13:37] Phil Wilkins: You're going to present to me on your position with how many people do we have, how many people are in the pipeline, how many people are being trained for management, and you know, are we are we going or
[13:47] Phil Wilkins: do you currently have vehicles sitting because you don't have drivers?
[13:51] Phil Wilkins: Then what is your plan right?
[13:53] Phil Wilkins: Operationally are you on time performance you know whatever the case may be what's your customer satisfaction profitability wise how did you perform last month how are you trending this month and from a sales perspective how are you know
[14:05] Phil Wilkins: how did you finish last month and how are you trending this month and how do you plan to make up the difference if there's a shortfall.
[14:12] Phil Wilkins: So those four items, religious, the time set, you know, and that's those are examples of systems that business owners need to put in place so that they can get their life back.
[14:26] Nirav Chheda: You know, you know, it's funny how like a lot of the times, maybe most of the time even, it's just the fundamental basic stuff.
[14:35] Nirav Chheda: It's not sexy. And it's not Yeah, it's not sexy.
[14:40] Nirav Chheda: Um, but that's the stuff that, you know, like it seems obvious to sort of hear this and say this, but you know, I guess when you're in the weeds of running a business, like you really do need someone
[14:53] Nirav Chheda: with an outside perspective to come in and show you stuff that Yeah.
[14:57] Nirav Chheda: like even seems fundamental and basic.
[15:00] Phil Wilkins: Yeah. But you know what? It's it's it's the fundamental things.
[15:04] Phil Wilkins: Fundamentals win, right? And I and I tell the story even and I don't mean to go off script here, but I tell the story about my football coach in college.
[15:15] Phil Wilkins: And every practice, Nirav, we were going to start practice doing the same three things.
[15:22] Phil Wilkins: We were going to get over the bag, we were going to shed a block, and we were going to form tackle.
[15:27] Phil Wilkins: Right? And those were fundamental items of the game of football that occurred on every play for a linebacker come hell or high water.
[15:36] Phil Wilkins: And it's the same thing. If you don't understand and have the basics and the fundamentals down in your business, how are you going to be successful?
[15:44] Phil Wilkins: And it's not sexy. You could be successful just doing the basics, but doing them better than anyone else.
[15:50] Phil Wilkins: And when you get the basics down, now all of a sudden you can really focus on the customer experience, the expectations, and those types of things.
[15:58] Phil Wilkins: But you have to take care of the basics.
[16:01] Nirav Chheda: And when you're at, let's say, one vehicle or even two vehicles, I mean, you're not really thinking about that stuff yet.
[16:09] Nirav Chheda: It's But you have to if you want to get to the third vehicle and the fourth one, that's like probably where that stuff really needs to start getting put into place, right?
[16:21] Phil Wilkins: Well, you're moving from an operator at that point to becoming a CEO really, And so how do you go about transitioning and making that transition happen?
[16:33] Phil Wilkins: Because at that point you're really going to have to put the systems in play, you know, and that's kind of where we were going with NEMTAC, you know, like with the presentation at NEMTAC.
[16:43] Phil Wilkins: How do you move from, you know, doing uh $2 million a year to a $20 million business?
[16:51] Phil Wilkins: And what are the differences in the two?
[16:53] Phil Wilkins: You know, when you really think about it, what are the systems?
[16:57] Phil Wilkins: what are the resources that they have in play that a $2 million business or whatever just does it.
[17:02] Nirav Chheda: And you have a a ropes system as you call it for outlining, you know, the steps and the processes to do that.
[17:10] Nirav Chheda: You want to dig into that a bit?
[17:12] Phil Wilkins: Yeah, sure. Sure. So, you know, it's when I was at the convention, I mentioned that it's not all-inclusive, but it is fundamental, you know, and it and I just really believe in the fundamentals in tackling those issues.
[17:30] Phil Wilkins: And so, ropes really stands for resources, operations, people, execution, and systems, right?
[17:37] Phil Wilkins: So from a resources perspective when you're thinking about growing and scaling you have to basically you know take inventory of where you are today and that's something that you know I really stress like hey look let's think about
[17:52] Phil Wilkins: you know what are the resources in place because the last thing you want to do is reach out and get going here and then have two you know both sides of the equation going haywire right um so from
[18:05] Phil Wilkins: a resources perspective perspective. I challenge people really to initially take uh inventory from a personal health and wellness perspective.
[18:15] Phil Wilkins: You know, just are you are you up for the challenge physically, you know, and mentally?
[18:20] Phil Wilkins: Are you ready uh to uh to take on this challenge?
[18:24] Phil Wilkins: You know, the last thing you want to do is, you know, be in poor health or whatever, take on a lot of debt and put your family in a tough situation, right?
[18:32] Phil Wilkins: That's that's a challenge. So, you know, what is the uh your personal health and wellness, are you are you good there?
[18:39] Phil Wilkins: Uh from a financial perspective, you know, just kind of taking inventory of the resources much like uh the uh the transportation partner I was talking about earlier, you know, do you have lines of credit financially?
[18:50] Phil Wilkins: Are you strong? Are you stable?
[18:52] Phil Wilkins: Are you meeting your financial goals and objectives, you know, each month?
[18:56] Phil Wilkins: And and from a relationships perspective, do you have a coach or a mentor?
[19:00] Phil Wilkins: someone that's maybe in a non-competing market that has done what you want that you want to do and can they kind of coach you through it, you know, and kind of help you and just, you know, really be
[19:13] Phil Wilkins: uh that candid advocate for you, if you will, uh but someone who's really going to tell you the truth, you know, and and maybe share with you different paths or a different perspective.
[19:24] Phil Wilkins: And um I really like that equipment, legal, technology, infrastructure, all of these things, you know, really need to be taken into uh when you know prior to you uh I think in many ways making that investment just kind
[19:41] Phil Wilkins: of taking an inventory of where you Yeah.
[19:44] Nirav Chheda: And I remember watching your talk at NEMTAC about this as well.
[19:48] Nirav Chheda: And I will say like I think 100% of transportation providers need to understand your ROPES system because it it's it's the fundamental basic stuff that's going to allow them to thrive, you know, without without taking these.
[20:06] Nirav Chheda: Let me ask you this. Everyone needs to hear this, right?
[20:10] Nirav Chheda: You have a team that for free you go and help transportation companies to understand this and instill this into their companies.
[20:21] Nirav Chheda: How do transportation companies glean the knowledge from you about your ROPES system, get the help from you, your team?
[20:29] Nirav Chheda: What do they do? Let's say, you know, I'm a transportation provider watching this podcast episode.
[20:34] Nirav Chheda: I'm hearing Phil. I'm buying into it.
[20:37] Nirav Chheda: I want to do this. like what are the next steps for me?
[20:40] Phil Wilkins: Well, I think the key thing would be, you know, if they're part of our system, right?
[20:46] Phil Wilkins: Uh that would be great. Secondly, are they a A or B provider and those people that are in our system really understand, you know, those requirements and what that means.
[20:55] Phil Wilkins: Uh but but you know, ultimately, you know, your on-time performance needs to be at a certain level.
[21:01] Phil Wilkins: Uh your customer satisfaction scores need to be at a certain level.
[21:04] Phil Wilkins: I mean, we really want good operators who are meeting the standards and the metrics.
[21:10] Phil Wilkins: And I think the leadership team has done a great job of really establishing those benchmarks and clearly articulating, hey, you know, this is your grade.
[21:21] Phil Wilkins: And so if you are an A or B provider and you have a growth goal of scaling then you know we are you know more than happy to you know I think you would approach your uh leadership team
[21:36] Phil Wilkins: in your area and then just say I'm interested in growth and scaling and I saw this uh this video with this crazy dude you know [laughter] and I want to talk to him you know I want him to
[21:50] Phil Wilkins: come out and uh work with me and my team.
[21:53] Phil Wilkins: And so, you know, that that's kind of really how it's working today, you know.
[21:57] Phil Wilkins: Um, so that's the cool thing.
[22:00] Phil Wilkins: You know, I know we're looking for people who want to grow and scale uh and who have that capacity and ultimately um who really, you know, want to uh run a great business.
[22:17] Phil Wilkins: I mean, that's what we're passionate about, right?
[22:20] Phil Wilkins: like you got to really want to run a great business and take care of the member.
[22:25] Phil Wilkins: Um, and I think that's if anything, you know, hey, what matters most to Modivcare, it's that compassion and that transportation partner who is deeply committed to serving people who are extremely vulnerable and helping those people in their
[22:52] Phil Wilkins: community bridge the health equity gap.
[22:55] Phil Wilkins: Right. You've got to have that passion.
[22:58] Phil Wilkins: If it's just something that it's money, money, money, you're not a fit.
[23:03] Phil Wilkins: You're not you're not a match for us.
[23:05] Phil Wilkins: You know, it's about the member experience and taking care of that member.
[23:09] Phil Wilkins: And I think, you know, we're pretty centered on that hey, we don't we don't feel that, we don't see that, then it's not a good Yeah.
[23:19] Nirav Chheda: That's the foundation that you have to have.
[23:21] Nirav Chheda: You try to build on any other foundation, it's not going to work.
[23:24] Phil Wilkins: Yeah, I mean at the end of the day we are we are in the health care business, you know, and um we are really helping people who need it and who can't sometimes even help themselves.
[23:35] Phil Wilkins: And so if you don't have that passion and it's not going to work.
[23:41] Nirav Chheda: Phil, thanks so much for sharing this.
[23:44] Phil Wilkins: Thank you. It's been pleasure. Run, Bambi, run.
[23:51] Nirav Chheda: [laughter] Be free. Awesome.
